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People don't seem to understand that BB is a company, not a charity.
Conite, it's fine if you find quid pro quo, but I know I'm not the only one that finds zero value for ANY google product to the extent that I make a strong effort to have no interaction with anything they offer. That's the crux of the matter. There are still people who are trying to find a viable option that DOESN'T involve them!
There is just NO business case for something like this. Plus which, there is a legal contract with Google that limits BB10's ART to the current level, because BB (as a company) is producing it's own full android.
I'll have to look into the Lune OS, but I think my point was mistaken. The people who are OK with the intrusive nature BUT are fully aware of what google is doing have made a choice (that I personally think is less than sensible) to make the trade of all of their personal data plus that of every person in their contact list in exchange for the services provided. The ones I feel are stupid are the sheeple who are totally unaware of the trade they made.
B. The TOS still let google have the total access as before. So even if you give them a fake name as a starting point, they still have your real cell number, can read every text, and they still get total access to read all of your calendar & contacts. So they quickly know who you are, who you know & where you are every minute plus the name, address and phone number for every appointment you put into the calendar. NO THANKS!
Conite, it's fine if you find quid pro quo, but I know I'm not the only one that finds zero value for ANY google product.
I'm just going to try to learn more about Lune & Sailfish in the hopes of getting something useful out of the deal. Back when I thought BlackBerry stood behind the users I wouldn't have ever spent over 5 minutes learning more about any of these. But I'm not the only user to have observed that the focus BlackBerry has isn't to move things forward for its base. But the big failing to most is how they constantly brag about how secure the device is from hacking yet is devoid of any semblance of privacy for the user.
Two points. I wasn't at all suggesting that I expected BlackBerry to do ANYTHING. They've been quite clear that they don't give a rat's furry behind about the needs or desires of anyone. I had just hoped that it might be possible to get a tiny bit of improvement in the ART so that a few useful apps could work (news, Consumer Reports).
While many continue to use the system albeit slightly more carefully, over 90% of the users I meet have NO clue of the things that are done or can be done with their data. They are thoroughly creeped out & surprised. So yes, I think those users have been stupid for not bothering to find out the deal before accepting it.
I actually (while they still operate!) have all the apps I want, but it would be quite convenient for me if I could get the consumer Reports app, one from the local News station and perhaps even a couple of airline apps to work that all required Kitkat to operate so I could never use them with my Q10. So of course the Classic I plan to buy to replace the Q10 will have the same shortcomings. One thing I didn't quite grasp is regarding hardware.
http://forums.crackberry.com/showthread.php?t=1132968 here is a thread on an extreme viewpoint that a few here seem to have that nearly makes me wish I hadn't started THIS thread in case it encourages them in their madness! While I think a few people might still have the mistaken idea that I put myself in the "BlackBerry owes me something" camp. The only reason I started it was my naive thinking on a topic that I only have a sprinkling of knowledge, barely enough to operate the device without knowing how to keep it working. I guess it was faulty reasoning on my part. My thinking was on the line of : Many programs need access to the play store in order to open. So I was hoping for whatever magic Cobalt uses to make it so that a BB10 device can successfully use apps that actually connect to the playstore, I was hoping for something similar where the play store would just be fooled into thinking that the user was using a device that wasn't quite as ancient (& even worse, NOT running Android! )
But you don't have to accept the arrangement. Get an iPhone then. If you don't like iPhone's arrangement either, get a flip phone. There is no dictatorship.
Just my $.02, YMMV ! ;-) sent via my Q10.
Even if they could upgrade over JellyBean 4.3, I'm not sure what additional permissions you'd give in order for apps to function properly. To me, that's been part of each OS upgrade, is requiring higher permission levels of additional permissions that appeared to be more data gathering while supporting new features. Google pushed the limits and now gives ability to opt-in/out depending on app developer and app functionality.

If it can run apps, do either OS let you control the permissions similar to BB10? If I'm forced to do it I was considering a feature phone but I'm Hoping to eke out the next couple of years with BB10 1st. No sense dumping the convenience of a smartphone before it becomes untenable.
So going back to your statement, if one side has nothing of value to offer there's no way to reach an accord. And the classic definition of a one sided deal is a dictatorship.
Plus which, WHY would BB do such a thing? What possible financial incentive would there be for them?
I reiterate that people who are fine with the Google ToS are not stupid by default - which you stated outright.
BUT if the death of the BlackBerry world makes any core functions quit working then I need some plan. As I told someone who said to just get an android but don't set up an account with real info, it is NOT viable! The minimal control over permissions added by Marshmallow won't do anything to let you use apps written so they want total access. Unlike the better written apps for BB10, the android apps are all-or-nothing. The BlackBerry maps app built in my Q10 still works perfectly even if I deny it access to the GPS! But I've deleted dozens of ported android apps that refuse to open unless given carte blanche! For example a flashlight app has zero need to access anything besides the flash itself. Yet if you deny even one of the things some slimy app thinks it's entitled to have the app instantly closes! Plus all the control users are given do NOTHING to prevent the most intrusive data theft by google itself.
Just my $.02, YMMV ! ;-) sent via my Q10.
So going back to your statement, if one side has nothing of value to offer there's no way to reach an accord. And the classic definition of a one sided deal is a dictatorship.
Conite, it's fine if you find quid pro quo, but I know I'm not the only one that finds zero value for ANY google product to the extent that I make a strong effort to have no interaction with anything they offer. That's the crux of the matter. There are still people who are trying to find a viable option that DOESN'T involve them!
Not trying to throw rocks, I've always felt that people have to take responsibility for their own decisions. I also maintain that the reason things are this intrusive IS a direct result of the click "yes", don't worry or bother to ever read anything attitude.
I know that there are some talented people here, such as Cobalt. So I wondered if there's anyone who may possess the skills to modify the runtime? I know that the biggest issue is that the files have to be "signed" by BlackBerry, but I just thought that since so many hackers manage to modify websites or other types of coding so maybe someone can be a "white hat" and combine the digital signature with a newer runtime?
I know that there are some talented people here, such as Cobalt. So I wondered if there's anyone who may possess the skills to modify the runtime? I know that the biggest issue is that the files have to be "signed" by BlackBerry, but I just thought that since so many hackers manage to modify websites or other types of coding so maybe someone can be a "white hat" and combine the digital signature with a newer runtime?
It seems that was a pipe dream, instead of one that will come true. And yes, I am rather ticked off with the situation. But I don't expect huge teams will slave away tirelessly just because I want something. Hindsight is of course 20/20, but I DO wish that the company that for years was synonymous with the whole idea of a device intended to improve the efficiency of the life of its user hadn't fallen SO far short of understanding how major the shift was that they barely rank a footnote. Or that their mistakes cause me & others like me to scramble to fight the results of their errors! But I'm realistic enough now to expect little from BlackBerry. So of course they manage to not even make that minuscule an effort!
Just my $.02, YMMV ! ;-) sent via my Q10.
Or, if you don't mind experimenting: get a Nexus 5 and install LuneOS. Google and Apple free. Otherwise, get a feature or basic phone.
BUT if the death of the BlackBerry world makes any core functions quit working then I need some plan. As I told someone who said to just get an android but don't set up an account with real info, it is NOT viable! The minimal control over permissions added by Marshmallow won't do anything to let you use apps written so they want total access. Unlike the better written apps for BB10, the android apps are all-or-nothing. The BlackBerry maps app built in my Q10 still works perfectly even if I deny it access to the GPS! But I've deleted dozens of ported android apps that refuse to open unless given carte blanche! For example a flashlight app has zero need to access anything besides the flash itself. Yet if you deny even one of the things some slimy app thinks it's entitled to have the app instantly closes! Plus all the control users are given do NOTHING to prevent the most intrusive data theft by google itself.
Just my $.02, YMMV ! ;-) sent via my Q10.
Posted via CB10 using my amazing  Passport (OG Red)
When you can, I'd pickup cheapest Nougat device and experiment with permissions. I bought Alcatel Idealxcite for cheap, like $29 USD cheap. It's AT&T prepaid, I tested on WiFi and set up dummy account. Problem with device is only 8GB memory, so it's not really usable. Literally, can only update factory installed apps plus add few apps of your choosing.
I have seen the constant increases in the level of data mining google thinks people are stupid enough to tolerate. But the dummy account idea is useless, since the minimal level of opt-out they provide is A. Only for 3rd party apps on the device.
Not a new idea, this is the 2nd time today that we have seen this same basic theme.
So I really do appreciate the help in learning the information on what might be a viable option as my BlackBerry gets more and more apps that are deliberately broken, like several like the Delta Airlines app went from working fine to useless in the space of an hour.
Maybe I'm missing something but I haven't been clear on either the Lune or Sailfish OS options as far as basic apps. Do either of these let you use android or some other sourced kind of apps? Or is it just a basic stand-alone with their own versions of the core business apps? I mean besides text it has some kind of browser, contact manager, calendar etc?
This may be simplistic but since I know that the ancient runtime files are supposed to be the root cause of so many issues with BB10, and I've seen how many users are devoted to continue using the BB10 OS I've wondered if anyone's made progress on a method to install even a slightly newer version?
Just my $.02, YMMV ! ;-) sent via my Q10.
For now my biggest concern is whether or not the core functions of my BB10 device depend on a functional BlackBerry World. While I have a very few apps I'd miss, as long as I can still make & get phone calls & texts, access the Web with some kind of browser & use my calendar with contacts I'll retain 95% of what I need to have. I have never used whatsapp so MY texts have no issues if the app dies on any day.
Just my $.02, YMMV ! ;-) sent via my Q10.
BB10 is stuck at JellyBean 4.3 and KitKat 4.4 was the breaking point for many. Lollipop 5 and Marshmallow 6 started requiring things, perhaps I'm wrong, that are more intrusive, permissions wise to even function. Nougat 7 and Oreo 8 are supposed to give more permission controls back to user or so I think.
My question is regarding the persons that I know that carelessly download app then later I get phishing or spam email from them because they've given access to contact list on their device.
So going back to your statement, if one side has nothing of value to offer there's no way to reach an accord. And the classic definition of a one sided deal is a dictatorship.
It boggles my mind that anyone would be comfortable with the degree of intrusion that even the most inoffensive apps try to get but I guess "to each, their own? "
If I got a new device, would it violate the warranty if I installed the new OS? I know just enough to know how tiny my store of knowledge is regarding the entire subject.
I know that there are some talented people here, such as Cobalt. So I wondered if there's anyone who may possess the skills to modify the runtime? I know that the biggest issue is that the files have to be "signed" by BlackBerry, but I just thought that since so many hackers manage to modify websites or other types of coding so maybe someone can be a "white hat" and combine the digital signature with a newer runtime?
If it can run apps, do either OS let you control the permissions similar to BB10? If I'm forced to do it I was considering a feature phone but I'm Hoping to eke out the next couple of years with BB10 1st. No sense dumping the convenience of a smartphone before it becomes untenable.
Maybe I'm missing something but I haven't been clear on either the Lune or Sailfish OS options as far as basic apps. Do either of these let you use android or some other sourced kind of apps? Or is it just a basic stand-alone with their own versions of the core business apps? I mean besides text it has some kind of browser, contact manager, calendar etc?
While my wife might agree with you from time to time, I'm really not stupid.
It could be doable, since the google play store lets the apps people run with the changes Cobalt makes to them, so couldn't our devices just have a slightly higher version?
Last edited by scubafan; 01-20-18 at 02:47 AM .
For now my biggest concern is whether or not the core functions of my BB10 device depend on a functional BlackBerry World. While I have a very few apps I'd miss, as long as I can still make & get phone calls & texts, access the Web with some kind of browser & use my calendar with contacts I'll retain 95% of what I need to have. I have never used whatsapp so MY texts have no issues if the app dies on any day.
Thanks for the input! BTW, while you said at least one of them is no better than the android runtime of version 4.3, do either get past the kitkat barrier?
Just my $.02, YMMV ! ;-) sent via my Q10.
It could be doable, since the google play store lets the apps people run with the changes Cobalt makes to them, so couldn't our devices just have a slightly higher version?
While I'm not bothered to extent you are, I don't have big social media presence. I don't necessarily like other people deciding for me if they install virus.
Thanks! Just my $.02, YMMV ! ;-) sent via my Q10.
Serious question Scuba. If other are compromising your data in their contact list by including you in their devices, how do you address that with them?
I'm not expecting miracles, and don't think that most of us need Marshmallow for anything. Many apps just need newer than Kit Kat to run. It's just so frustrating when the runtime isn't needing to be even as high as jellybean to allow some to work.
However, I am comfortable, aware, and accept the quid pro quo with Google.
I'm not expecting miracles, and don't think that most of us need Marshmallow for anything. Many apps just need newer than Kit Kat to run. It's just so frustrating when the runtime isn't needing to be even as high as jellybean to allow some to work.
There is more to it than just the software signing. As someone else pointed out today, the ART is integrated into BB10 and all of those hooks would have to be "plugged" in order to do something new.
Android runtime files update?
While many continue to use the system albeit slightly more carefully, over 90% of the users I meet have NO clue of the things that are done or can be done with their data. They are thoroughly creeped out & surprised. So yes, I think those users have been stupid for not bothering to find out the deal before accepting it.
Just my $.02, YMMV ! ;-) sent via my Q10.
I'll have to look into the Lune OS, but I think my point was mistaken. The people who are OK with the intrusive nature BUT are fully aware of what google is doing have made a choice (that I personally think is less than sensible) to make the trade of all of their personal data plus that of every person in their contact list in exchange for the services provided. The ones I feel are stupid are the sheeple who are totally unaware of the trade they made.
Since I don't care about 98% of the apps that people say they "need" badly enough to switch, as long as I can talk, text & keep myself up to date & on time I'm sticking to BB10.
While my wife might agree with you from time to time, I'm really not stupid.
Since I don't care about 98% of the apps that people say they "need" badly enough to switch, as long as I can talk, text & keep myself up to date & on time I'm sticking to BB10.
The weather app & a few others I use wanted various permissions that had nothing to do with their intended functions. Of course the control BB10 gives me allows me to block every move any of the 150+ apps on my Q10 try to make! After all that's one of the biggest reasons why I like my Q10!
However, I am comfortable, aware, and accept the quid pro quo with Google.
I'm not expecting miracles, and don't think that most of us need Marshmallow for anything. Many apps just need newer than Kit Kat to run. It's just so frustrating when the runtime isn't needing to be even as high as jellybean to allow some to work.
But if the end comes sooner than promised I'll at least have a vague idea of what I should do next if some deliberate "update" kills off the remaining functionality of BB10 devices. But for now I just plan on continuing to use my most useful tool for keeping me productive.
Or, if you don't mind experimenting: get a Nexus 5 and install LuneOS. Google and Apple free. Otherwise, get a feature or basic phone.
Just my $.02, YMMV ! ;-) sent via my Q10.
It could be doable, since the google play store lets the apps people run with the changes Cobalt makes to them, so couldn't our devices just have a slightly higher version?
I know that most either ignore privacy altogether, & think it's making it too much trouble to pay attention to things that they don't understand or else it's thought to be valueless. After all, what's the point of privacy when people post their every thought without actually thinking, or pictures of their food-car-outfit etc. I wouldn't care if it wasn't for the fact that anyone who wants to just quietly live their lives is forced to either give in to it or else spend far too much time learning to block as much as possible. Just because 100 companies want to access every scrap of data so they can make profits by invading MY life without my permission & without me getting any value of any kind from the deal just annoys the bleep out of me. Frustrating.
This may be simplistic but since I know that the ancient runtime files are supposed to be the root cause of so many issues with BB10, and I've seen how many users are devoted to continue using the BB10 OS I've wondered if anyone's made progress on a method to install even a slightly newer version?
But one issue comes to mind 1st. Once I no longer have the chance to get my BlackBerry device to work, my original issue with android may still exist. If I use one of these two operating systems, WILL I be able to prevent the different android apps from snooping? Or from accessing the GPS tracking of my location? I'd want to use the android versions of GasBuddy & the Weather app in place of the BlackBerry versions.
From now on I plan to try not to get them all riled up over something we all know BlackBerry has zero interest or plans for!
SailfishOS runs Android apps out-of-the-box (but an older version of Android), LuneOS has a third-party solution you manually need to download and install with the install package (though the Android version is just as outdated as on BB10). Both have very complete standard, native apps (like browser, calendar, etc.) and an app store (though in LuneOS's case, it's more of a package manager than an app store but it's easy to use and works amazingly well).
Not trying to throw rocks, I've always felt that people have to take responsibility for their own decisions. I also maintain that the reason things are this intrusive IS a direct result of the click "yes", don't worry or bother to ever read anything attitude.
I (of course) can't read back in the thread to get the name of the specific model cell that was suggested to be compatible with (I think) the Sailfish OS. Or maybe it was the Luna? In any case what I was trying to figure out is how I find out what phone models will work with either?
Just my $.02, YMMV ! ;-) sent via my Q10.
Last edited by conite; 01-14-18 at 01:20 PM .
This may be simplistic but since I know that the ancient runtime files are supposed to be the root cause of so many issues with BB10, and I've seen how many users are devoted to continue using the BB10 OS I've wondered if anyone's made progress on a method to install even a slightly newer version?
I know that most either ignore privacy altogether, & think it's making it too much trouble to pay attention to things that they don't understand or else it's thought to be valueless. After all, what's the point of privacy when people post their every thought without actually thinking, or pictures of their food-car-outfit etc. I wouldn't care if it wasn't for the fact that anyone who wants to just quietly live their lives is forced to either give in to it or else spend far too much time learning to block as much as possible. Just because 100 companies want to access every scrap of data so they can make profits by invading MY life without my permission & without me getting any value of any kind from the deal just annoys the bleep out of me. Frustrating.
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